The following writing is a
summary of the discussion that took place about AMORC in the web: http://forum.culteducation.com/list.php?6
Michael Jones
According to the Rosicrucian
Order AMORC, there are certain rules members have to follow absolutely in order
to continue to receive protection of the egregore of AMORC. These rules are
clearly spelled out in the monographs of AMORC and the Rosicrucian tradition.
Besides paying your membership
fee to AMORC and other important points I have mentioned in previous post,
members must (or must not):
1)
Cannot criticize the
Rosicrucian Order AMORC and the teaching of AMORC and its spiritual leaders
(terms use for the officer of AMORC visible and invisible).
2)
Members must not read
writing that is critical of AMORC.
3)
Members must voice
their opinion against writing that are critical of AMORC.
The reason given for this last
one is that if a member is not willing to voice opinion against writing that
are critical of AMORC, it means that they do not believe deep inside in the
teaching of AMORC and is therefore not worthy of the protection of the egregore
of AMORC.
And this is the dilemma. You
cannot read a book that is critical of AMORC and you must take position for AMORC
against such book. This smells fishy to me.
So fear is the force that pushes
members of AMORC into criticizing so harshly Pierre Freeman for his book “The Prisoner of San Jose”.
I welcome any feed back about
this dilemma.
Keir
It comes down to organizations
that wish to propagate their own propaganda and the suppression of dissidents,
criticism and or critical thought. (One's warning lights should be flickering!)
Nerveno
That is not a dilemma at all, I
spoke to a current 12+ degree member the other day about this book and he told me
if I want to then read it!
Fear is human nature. Fear is not
a tool of AMORC. There are no "Invisible Masters" that have the
control Michael states. They are a term for people who have achieved mastery of
their own lives. A goal every AMORC student strives to achieve.
I look forward to talking to
anyone about this matter and hopefully clear the misconceptions.
Of course if you believe in
something you will take their side in it. Cult or not.
And before it is said again. I am
not brainwashed by AMORC. i am a member and i am speaking from what I know
before joining. I defend them only because my time with them is pleasant and I
enjoy being a student.
Kier
Cults take on many forms. Not all
groups operate the same way. One should always hear the side of dissidents of
any group. There are always two side of the story.
Italsportkit
I have read the book and it is
basically the author who thought that with AMORC could find economic prosperity
in the USA, he was from Haiti. He didn’t go to work because was studying all
night, when he was going to marry instead of talking to the future wife he was
reading books of AMORC.
This is one of the most boring
books I have ever read, and you can see in all the book how sad is this man. A
total disaster of man.
He blames AMORC for everything it
did not work in his life, instead of blaming himself for his stupidity. Its so
obvious that if you just read books and study you will not find jobs and a
life.
He is describing AMORC almost
like scientology where they force you to read and study 24 hours. I am studying
with AMORC and I only dedicate a couple of hours a week so I don’t know why he
was on the studies 24 hours a day. Please read the book and you will se how
lost is this man.
Peter Hughes 73
My Dear friend Italsportkit (I
should Frater/Soror) since you said you are a member of AMORC. I have read the
book too. I think he did an excellent job of explaining the entrapping nature
of the Rosicrucian teaching.
Stating you are studying with AMORC
and dedicate a couple of hours a week is plain lie.
For example setting your sanctum
every Thursday: unpack your candles, install your minor, unpack your incense
find the proper lighting for the room, find matches, find the right monograph,
get your diary, get a pen,.. these seemingly simple task add up to at least one
hour to simply prepare the sanctum for study.
Now some one from outside of AMORC
might ask why pack and Unpack. Simple according to the Rosicrucian Order AMORC
these are so sacred that they must be kept away from the eye of the
"Profane"(I am using here AMORC loaded language).
Now, taking a shower or wash
yourself before sanctum study, deep breathing, I forgot listen to sanctum music
to put you in meditative mood,... all these AMORC basic manipulating techniques
will absolutely add up to another hour...
Now Let mention the torturing
time you spend trying to bridge inside of your mind the complete non-sense statement
of the monograph: "Up is down, down is up", "Actuality vs.
Reality", "Time does not exist",... of course all these has an AMORC
purpose create dissonance in the mind of the member, put the member into a very
trance/hypnotic state. So the member becomes very suggestible and will not
question the content of these monographs.
Now almost every monograph gives
exercises for members to practice daily during the week and all these add up to
at least 8 to 10 hours a week for a beginner.
As you get more advance, AMORC
gives members many new exercises to do and also force members into reviewing
the early exercises.
So to tell that you spend two
hours a week doing the AMORC study make me conclude that you are simply
promoting the same advertising statement of AMORC.
But again if you are a member of AMORC,
you have no choice because according to AMORC if you do not defend AMORC
against anything critical of AMORC, you will lose the protection of the
egregore of AMORC.
Michael Jones
I found this experiment in the
book “The Prisoner of San Jose” by Pierre Freeman.
I went back to the monograph and
verify his description of the experiment. It is in monograph # 6 of Atrium 1.
For those long time member that has the pre-1993 version of the monographs, you
will find it in a different location but still in the Neophyte section. I have
both version of the monographs but do not have time to search for the location
in the old monograph.
AMORC gives specific instruction
for the member to perform this experiment before studying this monograph. This
of course put the member in a very suggestible state for the reading of the
monograph. I have practice this experiment for many times over my 25 years of
affiliation to AMORC and never realized that I was hypnotizing myself.
Atrium 1, Monograph 6. Remember
we are sitting in from of a mirror with candles on a table and incense burning.
Experiment # 1
AMORC asks the member to
concentrate on the light of the two lighted candles for an undefined period of
time.
Experiment # 2
AMORC asked the neophyte to
extinguish one candle and leave the other burning. He then must sit with his
feet flat on the floor, executing four or five neutral or normal breaths. Once
he is completely relaxed, he must focus on the lighted candle, taking care not
to blink. He must keep this focus until he feels he has become one with the
candle.
During this experiment, the
neophyte is asked to try not to be conscious of himself or who he is. In other
words, he should lose himself in the object of his concentration. When losing
focus, he should pause momentarily and then renew his concentration, though no
more than twice at one time.
Then, he should relight the
second candle and continue studying the monograph. After reading the monograph
completely, he should briefly meditate.
The Anticult
Yes, that is basic self-hypnosis,
which makes you more Suggestible. Using a candle to stare at, is a very common
method.
Nerveno
This exercise you mention is not
hypnosis. It is a form of meditation (concentration or recursive meditation)
its aim is to build concentration and while it can be used for self-hypnosis,
it is because of the trance state you enter not the exercise itself. The above
I learnt before AMORC.
What Pierre Freeman doesn’t add
(or you forgot to add) is that there is an element of conscious concentration
involved in the exercise to attempt to perceive and change colors around the candle.
This therefore keeps your objective consciousness active. Reducing the chance
of your brain waves changing and entering a trance state suited for
self-hypnosis.
They mentioned losing awareness
of yourself and that around you. But do you not notice that when you
concentrate hard enough? You cannot truly concentrate while taking note of
external stimuli. They also ask you to meditate briefly on a question they pose
to you about the exercise.
The way you word the exercise
(basically not in its full form you miss bits out) of course it will change the
way people think of it. So please, include the full explanation. With you
Michael, you claimed to be a long standing member so i thought you would know
this exercise well.
With regards to the sanctum. They
never tell you to disassemble it. They even suggest that the sanctum be
permanent only temporary if you have to. They never mention the word
"Profane" simply they suggest you do not show to people because they
may make misinformed decisions about what it is and means.
With regards to the time. I don’t
know how it takes you an hour to set up. I keep everything i need right next to
my Sanctum. Takes about 5 minutes. And if it takes longer than the time given
by AMORC. So what? In all honesty if you wish to study you will make time and
fit it around your life like I do.
Vern 76
I have been a member for over 50
and do not feel I have a dilemma. By using the principles for the Mastery of
Life they have provided me I am now comfortable in retirement after a 43 career
in accounting and financial management.
I have been involved in other
self improvement organizations like Toastmasters and found they supplement the
principles taught by the Rosicrucian Order. I did not find any need or requirement
to spend untold hours studying and reading the studies and books. On the
average there is no need to spend more than 2 hours a week unless you elect to
do so.
As far as the posts on setting up
a home sanctum it takes only 5 minutes to set it up and take down if you keep
your stuff organized. In fact you can elect to leave it set up if you a space
to do so.
There are certain obligations to
being a member. But you will find that requirement with most other organizations.
Your are sworn in when you join the Army to be loyal to the country you are
serving, or if you join a church you go through a ceremony where you affirm you
loyalty to the teaching of that church. This give some sense of structure to
our society. I feel free to read whatever I want to read without restrictions.
There also are procedures to
follow if for any reason I do not agree with the decisions of any officers of
the Order and want to appeal that decision. We need certain rules in order to
have order in the world. So we have speed limits, the taking of other persons
goods without their permission is a crime, etc. Need I say more?
Clefwalker
I have been in AMORC for 27 years
and am leaving this year. I do believe that I was supposed to experience the
Order and learn from it, but I always felt "out of place." I think
the danger is that one subconsciously accepts the fear of being judged not to
be a "good member." Any established organization is going to have its
own principles and rules - if you are a member, you abide by them.
Right now, I feel released from a
straitjacket. Being a "Rosicrucian" does not mean being a member of AMORC.
It is much deeper and older than that, and beyond any physical organization.
Unfortunately, there are some in the administration who are very controlling
and force their rigidity on others.
I can say that anyone actually
practicing being a "walking question mark" was not really accepted,
especially if any actions taken by the Order were criticized.
Hopeful
That’s not true. Very early on in
AMORC studies you are advised to be “a walking question mark” and not take
anything you are told on faith. In my almost 6 years as a member of AMORC I
have never been forced (or even persuaded) to do anything I didn't want to. My
values and opinions remain very much the same as before I joined. If anyone
tried to tell me what to do or think I would leave!
Scaro
I have a longstanding interest in
researching AMORC history, and some would say, as a critic or even enemy of AMORC.
Certainly I'm very interested in the group's history and in HS Lewis and his
foundation myths for the group. I have been very strongly attacked in the past
for asking uncomfortable questions by some of the die-hard members. So be it.
I am not in AMORC. I was a member
it briefly for about eighteen months total, the last time was 2003. I didn't
leave due to any dispute or falling out, it just wasn't for me. I thought the
teachings were nothing that one could not find out for free and were fairly
diluted. In my opinion, some of what went on seemed a bit kooky or silly.
However, I think the criticism of
AMORC in the past year or two is nonsensical, and it is now time to turn around
to defend them, in the interests of a balanced and truthful picture.
Let us look at what is alleged in
recent posts.
Money
AMORC functions like most groups
by the contributions of members. AMORC dues are modest, compared to most other
organisations in many other areas of life. I'm a Freemason and that's about the
same as AMORC membership. For their Supreme Grand Lodge dues, members receive a
weekly lesson and a couple of regular publications. This used to cost about
$US250 when I was a member. Fairly inexpensive, considering all you get.
For a modest outlay, members in
towns and cities that have a physical lodge are able to pay lodge dues and
participate in rituals, open days, various exercises, courses and lectures. We
are talking about a fee of about $US60 a year for this privilege. The events
have a nice feel and are social, communal events in a relaxing, modestly
furnished building with such damnable cultic practices as the drinking of tea,
and the eating of cake and biscuits with like minded others and listening to
talks on topics like medieval women mystics and so on. I know, I used to be in
the Melbourne lodge and it was a pretty good place.
The lodge buildings are typically
owned by the members, being held in trust by the Grand Lodge for the country, I
think.
I think AMORC had a system of
contributions called “Amra” and yes, they ask to be “remembered” in members’
wills. So what? That might be a $50 donation!
I am quite sure all is not
sweetness and light, as in any large organisation, and I believe AMORC has had
some dodgy tax practices that have gotten into the French newspapers. But
nothing out of the ordinary.
Magic
His founder, H.S. Lewis had great
disdain for magical practices and AMORC has always been a mystical, rather than
magical organisation. This is abundantly clear from his writing on these
topics.
Ralph Lewis, his son, who ruled
the roost in the organisation for 48 years, has been described more or less as
'an agnostic Buddhist' in his take on life. Certainly not a magician.
The allegations of magic seem to
stem from the writings of Samael Aun Weor who was apparently disciple of a
rival Rosicrucian organisation for a time. Frankly, they seem hysterical.
Mind Control
This notion that AMORC controls
minds by persuasion seems to me a nonsense. If I am persuaded by a smooth
talking salesman to buy a vacuum cleaner, am I subject to mind control?
The definition of mind control
that Pierre Freeman uses is so diluted as to be absolutely meaningless -
everyone who tries to persuade you of anything at all would be “practicing
techniques of mind control”.
The AMORC people I know where not
controlled in any way by the group. They felt free to dismiss some of HS Lewis'
voluminous output of writing as 'nonsense', while other parts they liked. They
felt free to belong to other groups like BOTA - whose founder was scathingly
critical of HS Lewis as a “Rosicrucian impostor”.
I knew no one who I would
consider to have been controlled by the group. The lodge I was in certainly had
many 'controlling' personalities, but anything based on a secretive hierarchy
is going to attract such personalities.
I think AMORC functions as an
outer order quite well. It seems to provide the mystical basics at a modest
price and the companionship of like-minded others to discuss, meditate and practice
together.
Many people go on from it to
other organisations or orders, or maintain membership of AMORC while being in
other mystical groups, some of which are critical of or even opposed to AMORC.
Most who do this are unmolested by their fellow members or the hierarchy.
AMORC does not do anything that
any other 'reputable' or mainstream religion doesn't do. As far as the
experience of the average member goes, it is a fairly benign organisation.
Ben
Yelgim
I am in the Illuminati Section
Degree 10 Monograph 11 and practicing Psychic Awakening No 3 Adrenals and was
wondering if someone could please tell me how many more monographs to go also
how many Master Monographs in 11 and 12. The reason I am asking is that I have
been told Degree 10 has less than 50 Master Monographs and degree 11 less than
70.
My dad has the older style 1950
through 1970 and he says that Degree 10 had 97 Degree 11 had 167 and Degree 12
had 325 so if what I have heard is true then Christian Bernard has seriously
gutted the Illuminati section
Any info would be appreciated
Peter Hughes 73
You can easily buy the Monographs
from San Jose. They are just very expensive. For all the monographs from
Neophyte (monograph 1) to 12 Temple degre AMORC will charge you a lot of money.
You might want to be careful
before sending your money out because San Jose has a "No refund
policy".
Of course AMORC will not use the
term "no refund policy", because AMORC is very slick in how they do
"the Cosmic Business".
Serap
Here is my story, this week I
canceled membership of AMORC.
I really learned a lot, after 13
years now its time for something new, I want to continue my spiritual way on my
own as I am a yoga acharya and didn’t feel good any more in the AMORC group,
people didn’t develop and there where stupid commentaries about Buddhists, Jews,
Hindus, yoga, also some members seem to be little mini racists.
Nothing special as this happens
in every group; Just that every time I came to the group I didn’t feel to well
and it costed me a lot of energy to hear always the same kind of commentaries like:
-
"Aahh! Aren’t you in India again to get diary,
people there eat everything do ya really think its good and you can learn
something from a third world country."
I learned so many things from my
spiritual teachers in India, kundalini-vidya (the full thing), had sakshi bav
(withness state) consciousness as well as out of body experiences almost every
day, met my masters in astral.
The point is: I really was
thinking a long time if it is the right step and: I simply did it! I was never
a prisoner of AMORC, never felt like this and now when I wanted to cancel membership.
I did; that’s all.
AMORC can only be as good as the
members, Rosicrucian way has a lot to do with group rituals, if the people are
conservative and small minded.... its impossible to develop.
I always defended AMORC and still
I think it can be a good thing for some people, but in AMORC the problem seems
to be endless boring rituals and people who don’t develop, they come for cake
and tea and pretend to be some summum bonum high degree -illuminati member ...
but they behave like some mini Nazis 1945 ... sorry but this is the truth!
I have been in India such a long
time twice, lived 2 years in South Africa / Durban, and had unbelievable
spiritual mini enlightments, OBEs, mystical experiences and I feel its time to
continue on my own, I don’t have questions any more, i am not searching any
more, don’t need people who tell me what they think reality is about, not in yoga
and not in AMORC or any other organization.
For me vedanta and tantric yoga
comes very close to absolute, I don’t have to pay membership fees and show
these stupid membership cards every time I come even if everybody knows me
there.
AMORC it’s not a brotherhood,
more like a membership at Amazon, but you can learn a lot and teachings might
help to understand for a while.
Zaim
AMORC is a noxious sect where you
are brainwashed. I is not a Rosicrucian order, His founder was a liar and a
criminal. You must really run away from this organization that is just a
destructive cult like the Church of Scientology.
Scaro
I am a long term researcher and also
a critic of AMORC, but your accusations are clearly defamatory and unjustified.
I think its claims to occult
“legitimacy” are questionable, even its claims to teach “Rosicrucian” content
are debatable . . . there are many Rosicrucian groups and AMORC is only one,
though the largest and most public.
Particularly since the days of
Dame Frances Yates and her groundbreaking book on this area, 'The Rosicrucian
Enlightenment' in the early 70s, a school of study of the occult has grown in
academia. This has stimulated enough research and articles to where it is
possible to examine and define what “Rosicrucian” means in a fairly objective
and historical way, and AMORC often doesn't even approach that definition, in
spite of occasional nonsensical attempts to threaten and cajole other orgs and
play the trademark game in relation to the “Rosicrucian” name.
Harvey Spencer Lewis, the founder
of the org, some might pattern as a true mystic, others might say he was a cad,
telling hysterical lies at times to build up his organisation. He was found in
court to have plagiarised a lot of material that he sold to his students as
'secret wisdom.' On the other hand, it seems he didn't do anything much that
would have hurt another human being; he was inventive, hugely energetic, from
all accounts funny, and the organisation he set up was largely benign.
So, despite being a critic, and
having had long correspondence with other critics of AMORC, eg, Robert Vanloo,
Elias Ibrahim, etc, I do feel that justice demands I say the truth about AMORC
when it's labeled as a 'destructive cult.' It just isn't so.
AMORC charges minor dues to the
ordinary member, perhaps $US200-300 a year, for which the member receives a
full curriculum of weekly lessons with practical exercises that might be
encountered in any mystical tradition. It's presented in an easily digested
format. It demands only a couple of hours study a week. This is small beer. $5
or $6 a week and a couple of hours for study.
Demands for funds outside the
Supreme Grand Lodge dues (the fees for getting the mailed lessons) are minor.
There are lodge dues if you want to attend a physical group that meets in a
building; in Melbourne, Australia, the cost was about $US50. A year for the
privilege. For that you got a full programme of open days on Saturday, rituals,
access to a decent library - distinguished by including books by a number of
authors highly critical of HS Lewis!
OK, there are additional
conferences you might attend, courses etc, but not that many, and for most, the
cost is hardly astronomical. I attended one when I was a member at Sydney
Lodge. The cost was $US15 a day, and included lectures, exercises, food and tea
and coffee. These events might take place quarterly.
Members had gone out of their way
to provide food, do the catering, and make others feel welcome. They weren't
brainwashed into doing this any more than anyone in a small Catholic parish
group might be. They were nice people who believed some of their system and had
found a place they were spiritually comfortable. That was about it.
Occasionally you might come
across someone in the group who was a bit kooky, a 'true believer' I suppose.
But this wasn't because of AMORC. It's just that small groups like this do
attract folk like that sometimes. Trust me, I've been a member of enough little
groups to know the type!
Some of the worst of these people
detached from AMORC in 1990 after the Imperator, a former rodeo clown (!) named
Gary Stewart, was removed in a palace coup. He founded another group, but even
though some of the old AMORC die-hards went with him, he publicly gave marching
orders to some of the more noxious of them a few years ago, presumably
realising the danger that fanatics pose.
Most of the members I knew were
balanced, compassionate people. Most had a healthy range of interests in things
outside their mysticism, and more than half were members of other mystical
groups. The head of the Melbourne Lodge was a popular and well known Mason, and
also a member of a group whose founder roundly attacked Lewis in the 1920s.
Hank was well aware of this. It did not bother him in the slightest.
As for compulsion and
manipulation, well I don't think AMORC does much of that. They do the soft-sell
on some of their publications (they have a publishing arm) and sure, they'd
like you to stay a member, and say as much, but fairly well leave your
affiliation up to you . . . remembering that probably more than half AMORC
members only interact with the group by receiving the lessons and do not affiliate
with physical lodges.
Do they have some flowery
promises? Well, yeah. But what religious group doesn't? And they do leave your
beliefs largely up to you, including your affiliation with other occult orders,
mainstream religions, your politics, and what you believe from their lessons.
Most of the members I spoke to
believed some of what the order taught, but not all of it. One of them thought
the founder was a complete charlatan and felt quite OK with venturing that view
to me. Member attitudes seemed less derived from a personality cult around the
founder instead being largely derived from having tried and tested the
exercises and having found them effective in their lives. By and large, they
were good people.
I think all of this needs to be
recognised in any valid consideration of what AMORC is.
My biases and affiliations . . .
I was a member of AMORC for 18 months to 2 years, and have been a member of
other Rosicrucian and occult groups not connected to AMORC for many years. Some
of the people in those groups are current or former members of AMORC. I have
written a few history articles on AMORC history and examining related orders.
Ben
Clefwalker
Ben, thank you for your thoughts.
I feel the same way – if one is a "regular" member, it is pretty
peaceful and one doesn't feel the cult aspect. Some people need to feel that
"belonging" that characterizes membership in an organization, and
they make it into a quasi-cult. I never felt that I was being overly
influenced, although one does begin to think like a Rosicrucian after a while.
My beef at this point is the leadership of the American Grand Lodge, which has
manifested itself as rigid and inflexible. I am gradually cutting the ties,
although there may still be a connection for a short while.
Scaro
That's ok Clefwalker.
I have no doubt there is a small
minority who did turn AMORC into their personal cult.
These people tended to be the
most rigid adherents to the personality cult around the Lewises. Being a camp
follower of that kind is inevitably going to lead to a fork in the road at some
point, because the Lewises were human and made significant errors.
So you either choose to diverge
from reality and keep the rosy-tinted glasses on when it comes to the doings of
Harvey, Ralph, Raymond, Christian and the gang, or you adjust the myth,
experience a bit of disappointment, and hold true to reality.
I think that's a real stage in
growth for the mystic. If you can read RS Clymer on Lewis' pilfering of writers
like William Walker Atkinson, and still say 'Oh well, he did a few bad things,
but his system is still OK' then that's an adult response, I'd say.
If you read Clymer and then
conclude that Clymer was an evil liar and that all he said about the Lewises
was wrong, or you decide to totally abandon the Lewises and seek perfection
elsewhere, then in my view, you're not dealing with reality in an adult way.
There used to be a few on the
alt.AMORC newsgroup who fit the 'camp follower' mold. It did not surprise me to
find that their detachment from reality segued into other areas of their lives
. . . one of them even maintaining a fiction that he was a Vietnam veteran . .
. while his wife posted vociferously on the alt.AMORC about why people should
go fight in the Iraq war! What a piece of work!
But that's the full cultic “disconnect”
in operation, the way I see it. But these whackaloons are thankfully a very
few, and most people I met in AMORC didn't act that way. Most were good; some
were really evolved, intellectual individuals who would not have been out of
place in the upper echelons of Buddhism or with the Jesuits, or any other “mainstream”
system.
There did seem to be a few nasty
folk who turned AMORC into their own little power trip, i.e., less about being
a true believer and more about seeing how far and fast they could climb the
hierarchy and play favourites and little exclusionary games, messing with those
they saw as lower down in the pecking order.
As to 'thinking like a
Rosicrucian'. If you immerse yourself in any system of training you'll come to
think as the system prescribes. I would say I think in an 'occult' or
'initiated' way because that's been my training, in a variety of groups. I
think I got more value out of belonging to a few groups, as I could contrast
aspects of their teaching, and it made it easier to see the value and parallels
in different systems, say in Islam and Christianity, where Rosicrucian study of
one kind or another improved my understanding and appreciation of what's going
on with the 'spiritual technology' of those faiths.
I think there always comes a
point where you need to cut your ties with a group. Even some of the strongest AMORC
defenders have done that. That isn't to say the system is wrong, it's just that
the effect of the path is to lead to changes, flux, and growth, and the
rigidity of a system that might have suited you five years ago eventually comes
to be a hindrance.
I think part of the path is
knowing when to let go. Thankfully, I do not think AMORC stops people when they
need to do that.
I have even heard that they are
thinking of letting people give up their AMORC membership and maintain
membership in their Martinist order, which seems to be an obvious progression.
Ben
